Fatty Interviews . . . Fatty
There’s a lot being said about Lance Armstrong right now. About his upcoming confession. About how he cheated, who he cheated, and why he cheated. There’s a lot of talk about his apology to the staff of LiveStrong, and whether the LiveStrong faithful will remain . . . faithful. A lot of people are interviewing and being interviewed.
But you know what? I’m interested in hearing about the people who are – or were – the LiveStrong faithful. I’m interested in hearing what the people who he directly lied to think. I’m interested in knowing how the folks who had Lance’s back feel right about now.
Oh wait. That’s me.
You know what? Someone should ask me some questions.
What, no takers? Fine, I’ll do it myself.
Deep Navel-Gazing
I know, I know. Interviewing yourself is about as ridiculous as interviewing an empty chair. And presuming anyone is interested in what I think and feel about this whole thing is about as self-absorbed as a person can get.
But then again, what is a blog if not a public proclamation of self-absorption?
And to be honest, it’s helpful for me to get my thoughts down. It makes my reasonable beliefs more clear, and it helps me recognize my stupid beliefs as such.
So let’s get started. Q&A with me.
How do you know Lance?
My first real interaction with Lance was before I ever became known as someone with a gift for fundraising — back when Susan was really sick — took the time to send over a picture of him holding up a “WIN Susan” sign and tweet encouraging remarks our way.
When Susan passed away, Lance tweeted a touching message my way.
Gestures like that meant a lot to me, and they still do.
With everything being said about Lance right now, it seems to be forgotten that whatever else he has done, he cares deeply about the fight against cancer, and has taken a lot of his time to support individual people during their fights.
So maybe it’s not such a bad idea to bear in mind that he is not a pure villain. Maybe it’s not such a bad idea to bear in mind that he can be incredibly thoughtful toward someone he doesn’t know at all.
Apart from those interactions, up until about a year ago, my interaction with Lance were pretty much the interactions any person who raises a lot of money for LiveStrong has: meet him at fundraisers, get my photo taken with him. That kind of thing.
OK, so that’s up until a year ago. What happened then?
I was in one of my blog blackout weeks, working on my day job offsite, in a conference room. I wasn’t following the news or anything else, really. No time for it.
Then I got an email — my first — from Lance. He was wondering what I thought about Bill Gifford’s article in Outside. At that point, I hadn’t read it, so replied that I’d read it and get back to him.
That night, in my hotel, I read Gifford’s piece, then wrote my reaction to it. (I just went back and read it, and am happy to say that I stand by it.) I emailed Lance back and told him he could check out my post. He replied and thanked me.
Was that manipulation? I think it was, albeit of a very mild sort. At the time, though, it just seemed really cool that he thought enough of my opinion to even want me to have his back.
And did you stay in touch?
We did. I actually became a bit of a pest. For example:
When I asked him to give me a pair of his old running shoes as a semi-joke incentive for a fundraiser for LiveStrong, he obliged (and even made a video of him sending it).
When I published my “Best of” book, I asked him to tweet a link to it; he obliged.
When I saw on Facebook that what Jenni Laurita really wanted for her birthday was a tweet from Lance, I asked him if he would; he obliged.
When I was upset by the way the Susan Komen foundation scrubbed funding for breast cancer screenings at Planned Parenthood, I emailed him and Doug Ulman saying I wanted to do something about it; he wrote back right away, saying he agreed and that they were already on the case.
So it sounds like your own experiences with Lance were overwhelmingly positive?
Almost all of them were. But not all.
When he found out I was going on TourChats to promote my book, Lance actually called me and told me I should prepare to be attacked by the Neil Browne and some of the people who watch Tourchats (Lance was correct about some of the people, but completely incorrect about Neil, who was gracious while we talked and with whom I’ve since become good friends).
Lance sounded angry. He went on for about ten minutes, on a roll, getting more and more pissed off. I don’t get angry like that — honestly, I can’t remember ever just flying into a tirade of the intensity and scope he was on — and I just wanted to get off the phone.
At some point during this call, the talk turned to accusations of doping. I asked, “Is there anything to be worried about?” It was as close to coming straight out and asking him as I dared to be.
“There’s nothing there. Nothing at all,” he said.
This made a little red flag go up in my mind, because by this time there was enough evidence that he had doped that I had a hard time believing he could have been clean. So I had to resolve my personal “innocent until proven guilty” philosophy against my belief that he had doped, mixed in with his assertion, made personally to me, that he was clean.
I decided that I’d hold true to my philosophy. I wouldn’t jump on the bandwagon of condemnation. Further, I would provide contrast to all the claims of what a mean, vindictive person he is.
But at the same time, I decided I wouldn’t — couldn’t — assert that he’s clean.
My compromise position was that I’d leave doping out of my blog more or less altogether.
Which I wasn’t altogether happy about, because I would sometimes have a funny thought about doping, then have to abandon it.
When’s the last time you communicated with him?
Back in August, while I was racing the Breck Epic. I texted him, saying I was about tot start my fifth straight day of racing and was completely wiped. I said I never understood before how hard it is to race day after day. I told him he should come race the Breck Epic in 2013. He asked when it is.
We haven’t been in touch since then. And to be honest, since the USADA reasoned decision came out (here’s my post from that day), I haven’t been all that excited to communicate with him.
Why not?
Because I feel stupid. I feel like I’m easily played. I’m the guy who believed Tyler and went on and on about it.
I’m the guy who believed Floyd and went on and on about it.
And now I’m the guy who thought he’d learned his lesson and so — rather than come out and say something I suspected but didn’t know for sure about Lance doping — just talked about Lance and LiveStrong.
But that’s a nuanced position, and it was misinterpreted to mean that I believed everything Lance said. And nuance on Armstrong doesn’t exactly register with the scorched-earth crowd.
And they have a point. Clearly, I defended Armstrong. And the good will I created contributed to his camouflage for his cheating, lying, and intimidation.
I feel sick about that. And used. At the same time, though, I don’t want to become one of the cynical people — the people who sneer at and suspect everyone.
I’ll try to be wiser. But I’m not going to try to change my fundamental nature.
Do you feel like Lance owes you an apology?
I don’t even know how he could phrase it, if he does. “I’m sorry I was kind to you and your dying wife, then leveraged your gratitude and trust into a smokescreen for my cheating and lying.”
It sounds calculating to the point of being ridiculous.
I don’t want an apology, and I’d feel weird getting one.
Do you feel like you owe your readers an apology?
I do.
Readers, I’m sorry I was one-sided about Lance. My inclination is to talk publicly about the good people do, and to keep my reservations about people to myself. That was a disservice to you.
So where do you stand regarding LiveStrong?
I still support them, and plan to continue fundraising for them. I haven’t come to this decision lightly, either. I know that the image of LiveStrong has been tarnished by Lance’s cheating, and in a lot of people’s minds, they’re one and the same. So I know it will be harder to fundraise for LiveStrong, at least for a while.
I’ve considered whether, for the amount of time and energy I have, LiveStrong is one of the places on which I should focus.
But the fact remains that while I’ve had a few nice Lance-related LiveStrong experiences, the people who really made me a believer in this foundation are the staff of the organization. They’re the people who helped me when I needed it. They’re the people who have helped numerous people I’ve referred to them. They’re the people I’m thinking about when, whenever I get email from someone who has cancer, I strongly recommend contacting LiveStrong immediately.
But will you continue wearing your yellow LiveStrong bracelet?
I’ve never worn those. I like orange.
So what would you like to see happen next?
I’d like to see this burn as hot as it needs to, for as long as it needs to. And then, once it’s done, I’m looking forward to seeing what rises from the ashes.
I’m looking forward to writing about riding my bike and joking about bikes and riders and riding.
I’m looking forward to the future, and hopeful that those who need to — me, for example — will remember this as an important cautionary tale.
PS: If you would like to ask me questions in the comments, I’ll do my best to answer, as long as you are civil. Non-civil questions will be deleted without comment.
Comment by ScottR | 01.16.2013 | 3:23 pm
I personally never thought you were that one-sided – I think you made it pretty clear that you were about LiveStrong’s work, and used how they have affected your life as your motivation/proof/etc.
Respect for your post, all the same. The pic with the Win sign is great.
Thanks. I never thought of myself as unfair, but there’s enough of a trend in what I’ve written that you could make a case for it. – FC
Comment by Eric Finn | 01.16.2013 | 3:32 pm
Fatty, I don’t feel you owe your readers an apology. I’m firmly in the camp of Lance cheated and have been there for sometime. The reason I keep coming back to your blog is the same reason you feel you got taken. You are a generous caring person and it shows in what you write about and where you choose to focus your energy. I’d hate to see you change that because of whatever effect the Lance factor has had on you. Keep on believing in the basic good nature of human beings and I’ll keep reading. Besides I always kind of discounted anyone else’s opinions of dopers. Its kind of like religion, you can’t change anyone’s opinion based upon what you post. :-)
I don’t want to change and am probably old enough that I couldn’t if I want to. At some point your personality hardens; I’m well past that point. – FC
Comment by Aaron Harrell | 01.16.2013 | 3:33 pm
Well said. You’re a good man Charlie Brown.
Comment by Sthenic | 01.16.2013 | 3:35 pm
I support your position!
Comment by SLL | 01.16.2013 | 3:37 pm
Thanks for publishing this. The silence/one-sided aspect turned me off from the blog for a bit. But then I remembered the great posts I read in your book and have hope that those days of bike blogging will return. Has Lance done some good things, it seems so. Has he manipulated others and tried to destroy others to get to the top, definitely. We can talk about legacy, and we can talk about Livestrong, but we should not do it with our heads in the sand.
I can’t promise I’m going to write one kind of post or the next going forward. I write what I feel like writing, from the perspective I have, every time I write. That’s the nice thing (for me) about this blog. It’s mine. That said, I have a full racing and event schedule and a lot less blogging baggage than I used to. There’s at least a small chance you’ll be glad you read this regularly. – FC
Comment by NYCCarlos | 01.16.2013 | 3:41 pm
apology accepted although certainly not expected or required from me.
Comment by Jim Tolar | 01.16.2013 | 3:45 pm
FatMan,
I’ve already been asked multiple times if I’m going to hold the 2013 100 Miles to Nowhere (Dobson Ranch Edition) in light of this brouhaha.
My response until now has been: “Of course. Just because Lance Armstrong has revealed himself to be a lying, cheating scumbag doesn’t change the fact that LiveStrong and (my other 100MtN fundraising target) the Cardon Children’s Pediatric Oncology Program are doing fantastic things for a very needful audience and they need our financial support.”
From now on, I’m just going to say “Of course.” and link to your post. Thank you for writing this. No apology to this reader required.
jt
p.s. I see that you and The Hammer are going to be in our town doing the Leadman Tri on April 14. We’ll probably be holding 100MtN (Dobson Ranch Edition) that day. If you and The Hammer need a place to call home for the weekend, we have plenty of room and are less than 5 miles from the course. Contact me by e-mail if there is anything we can do for you guys.
Let’s at least get together for dinner or breakfast or something before / after the tri. – FC
Comment by Mark in Ottawa | 01.16.2013 | 3:45 pm
My take has always been that if he cheated as a pro-athelete, so be it…but he’s done a world of good on a human level. Real families are tangibly better off because of the work he’s done and his foundation continues to do today without him.
You supported the work of the foundation and the good they do and you supported Lance’s good works as well. I don’t think we can get into a black and white admonishing that he’s evil because he cheated at bike racing. Bike racing is entertainment – helping families with cancer is real.
Mark (in Ottawa)
Comment by Michele | 01.16.2013 | 3:46 pm
Eric Finn and ScottR said it perfectly.
Comment by Brian in VA | 01.16.2013 | 3:49 pm
I don’t think an apology was needed from you, Fatty, but accepted just the same. We’re good.
LiveStrong is a marvelous foundation, does an awful lot of good for folks, and has gotten a good bit of money from me because of it. They’ll continue to do so and I will continue, as well. Since Lance started it, he gets kudos from me for doing so but I think most of the good, hard work was done by the staff. He has done a number of terrific little things, the sign is a great example, that certainly helped individuals and that says a lot.
As far as what else he did, it’s reprehensible, vile, and heartbreaking. Like you, I hope what rises from here is worthy and good.
Hats off to you for a well thought out post.
Comment by Adam Hegedus | 01.16.2013 | 3:57 pm
Great post, Fatty. I don’t think you need to apologize, but I understand why you feel that way. I’ve been following Lance’s career for almost 20 years now and I too defended and supported him. I do want to try to hold back my feelings until I’ve seen the interview, not because I think he’ll have some magical valid excuses for his doings, but more so to see if he has some level of remorse for it. I want to know, as a father, how does he look at his kids in the morning. I’m not sure his answers would make me feel better, but I definitely want to see it.
My question to you is.. I know that you continue to have a good relationship with Levi, and that you reached out to him after his admission. Would you ever reach out to Lance, and if so… what would that email look like? I don’t have that connection, and there certainly are questions that I’d love to ask, so I’ll live vicariously through you..! Thanks Fatty!
I expect I’ll talk with him, but not for a while. Right now he’s certainly dealing with bigger fish than me; honestly I wouldn’t want to be one more person trying to get his attention. What would I ask and say? I don’t know. Maybe something along the lines of, “Remember back in 2009 when I got up on a stage and said that someday you’ll be remembered better for your cancer work than for your cycling achievements? Well, it looks like I’m going to be right in a very weird way.” – FC
Comment by Carl | 01.16.2013 | 3:59 pm
Fatty, you never have to apologize for seeing the good in people and pointing it out to your friends. Those of us who have followed your blog for awhile know where you are coming from and things in your life that have formed the way you see people… I’m thinking of the post in which you told us how you had done missionary work in Norway or somewhere near there. The world needs more people that love people for who they are, even if the hate some of their actions.
Comment by Jamie | 01.16.2013 | 4:00 pm
You do not owe any of your readers an apology. I have never thought of you as a Lance apologist but rather as an ardent LiveStrong supporter. I am extremely disappointed with Lance in both the doping and the extreme cover-up and spin that continues to come from him. I will continue to support LiveStrong and the other cancer organizations since they have touched my life so much. Hopefully LiveStrong can weather this period and focus on the great work they do.
That’s a really generous POV. Thank you. – FC
Comment by Dave W | 01.16.2013 | 4:00 pm
This is a sad episode and one many people are shaking their heads about. The real question is how does this clean up the sport. I’m not sure it will but the riders need to do something if they want the respect of the fans, and right now, we don’t know who is and who isn’t. It was systemic and institutionalized and the only way to stop it is for the riders to rise up to the challenge and clean up the sport themselves. Lance may or may not be redeemed, it will be a long road, he’s done a lot of good but hurt a lot of people, but he just one more in a list of athletes who have competed unfairly.
thanks for the post.
I think that the sport is getting to the point where it is nearly as clean as it can be. Reasonable measures are taken. Cheaters still cheat, because cheaters are as likely to be smart as cheat-catchers. However, there is a strong stigma against doping now that there was not before. I think that, combined with the other deterrents and penalties in place, will result in markedly less cheating for at least several years (’til the memory of this all fades and there’s another high-profile case that brings it back to top of mind). – FC
Comment by mbgonzo | 01.16.2013 | 4:04 pm
Thanks for being genuine. May sound like a low bar but these days it’s a rarity.
Comment by Curtis | 01.16.2013 | 4:04 pm
Fatty – Great post. I’ve been a long time reader of your blog and we actually rode together at LIVESTRONG Philly a few years back. You and I were near the front of the peloton (where else would we be, right?) and chatted for maybe 5 minutes. You were on that rental bike and were enjoying not having to dodge potholes with wheels that you didn’t need to worry about truing. I thought that was hilarious! Other than having that in common, I’m unfortunately the opposite of you and find that I’m often initially skeptical of a person until I get to know them. That being the case, I have a question that I’m curious to see your answer to.
Why do you think Lance denied doping for 10+ years and now, all of a sudden, has decided to go talk to Oprah and come clean? EVERYONE I know is asking me this question and our conversation always focuses on what could he possibly be expecting to gain from admitting it now? I have no answer – I doubt he’d make much money at all if he’s ever allowed to do triathlons again. His cycling career is over and I doubt any sponsors will pick him up now that he’s come clean. So really, what’s the point of all this?
I think he’s coming clean because of a combination of 2 things: he’s cornered, and the time is opportune. Until he’s confessed, he really doesn’t have a lot of things he can do, and he’s too restless to just hang around doing nothing. The time is opportune because there are enough things up in the air that he can still negotiate some kind of settlement for at least some of the pending litigation. That’s a rapidly-closing window, though. If he doesn’t act now, in a few months it wouldn’t matter if he acts. – FC
Comment by Ben | 01.16.2013 | 4:07 pm
Eldon,
Ive been a longtime reader, and while we’ve communicated from time to time, I admit I have been less than kind to you the more I learned about what happened, and the further you got “in bed” with lance, and frankly Levi too. I was disappointed in you as someone who had the connections, and are basically a paid researcher, that you couldn’t take even a few days to research enough facts from discussions with Lances teammates and former colleagues to influence your decisions. It took me less than 2 weeks from first talking to Floyd to having Vaughters admit to me privately that he doped long before his public admission, and that it was easy to learn that truth was not on Lance’s side of the story.
I certainly understand and admire your choice to do something positive out of what ended Susan’s life, and I’ve contributed to both your livestrong and power of bikes fundraising. I think you do a valiant job in making people aware of causes that are certainly worthwhile.
I still believe the best in people, and for a time after Floyd’s admission even, I believed in Lance. I don’t want you to become a cynic either, but after your conversations with levi and the deceipt from Lance, what do you think you learned from all this?
I’ve learned that people who are rude and unkind are capable of rationalizing their bad behavior to their own satisfaction, without regard to how it impacts others. It’s an important lesson, Bin. – FC
Comment by Jay Rob | 01.16.2013 | 4:08 pm
Fatty,
It does not reflect poorly on you to be taken, it does on Lance. Whether we want to admit it or not, anyone would want to get attention from a “star”. I know I did the first time I met him. Even though I knew how he had treated some other people I knew, I still looked past that to be “cool”. that is normal. What glares obvious to me in your post here is how insecure he truly is. He HAS to have people like him. he has to be in the limelight. Hence Comeback 2.0, and the rest of the dumpster fire that his life has become.
Ultimately I think it reaks of Daddy issues on his part. Severe Daddy issues. No amount of money or fame change that. Even now, I think we will find that this “confession” will turn out to be much more about him then anyone else. For that I truly feel sad for him.
Comment by Keith | 01.16.2013 | 4:11 pm
Nicely done.
Comment by Jenni | 01.16.2013 | 4:17 pm
The Lance tweet was a MAJORLY awesome thing, it gave me joy on my birthday, THANK YOU!
I too think you don’t owe anyone an apology. Not even remotely close.
Here’s my question, apologies if I skimmed past it:
Does your future support of LiveStrong have any variance on whether Lance is in or out of the organization? I see some people saying now that he’s gone, they will support LS again. I’m curious if he was back in (in limited or full capacity), would it affect your decision?
Also:
There’s a saying: The fish stinks from the head down. Do you think if Lance has moral corruption enough to do what he did, that it could, in any measure, have trickled down or through his organization? (No disrespect intended or implied toward the amazing staff there, I think they’d be completely unaware or uninvolved in wrongdoing if there was any)
I wouldn’t support LiveStrong if I thought it were corrupt. I’ve talked and otherwise communicated with Doug Ulman — the CEO of LiveStrong — way more than I ever have with Lance, and Doug seems to me to be one of the most ethical people I have ever met. I can’t conceive of him allowing any kind of corruption in LiveStrong.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Lance comes back to LiveStrong at some point. If he does, I would guess that there would be a lot of thinking on both his part and their part about the relative value of such a move. If he does, I think it will be as a changed man, along the lines of a Bill Clinton 2.0. Whether I’d support such a move would depend on whether it feels right to me. It’s that simple and non-fact based. – FC
Comment by Jeff | 01.16.2013 | 4:18 pm
This is why I read your blog. Honesty. Humanity. Ability to not force things to be what they are not.
My only question (actually two) is: do you see any way that Lance would ever again be engaged in a leadership role with LiveStrong, and if he was would you continue to support the organization?
See my answer to Jenni above. – FC
Comment by John in Seattle | 01.16.2013 | 4:18 pm
Fatty, I support you and your position. your blog is a constant source of ammusement and information on the state of cycleing and donut consumption. My feelings on Lance are unchanged. I’m sorry he doped, I believe he had to in order to even compete in a field of dopers. Had he not, we would have never heard of him, and Livestrong would just be a dream of his unrealized. I continue to wear my yellow band, I will continue to support Livestrong and Team Fatty, and I will continue to believe in (doping or not) the best cyclist to ever get on a bike.
Thanks for your support, John. I disagree with you on the “had to” part. He didn’t have to. Maybe he wouldn’t have won anything, but lots of people don’t win anything. He wouldn’t be in the position he’s in, and he wouldn’t have caused the damage he’s caused. Perhaps LiveStrong wouldn’t exist, but I believe that where there’s a need, talent fills that need; some other organization would be filling that role now, and we’d be happily supporting it instead of wrestling with this mess. – FC
Comment by Patrick #4091 | 01.16.2013 | 4:18 pm
My only question is, can I ride my bike with you some day?
Definitely. – FC
Comment by Andrea | 01.16.2013 | 4:19 pm
Well said. Thank you for sharing another point of view.
Comment by Kristina | 01.16.2013 | 4:25 pm
Oddly, considering that I read your blog on a daily basis, I am not much of a bike rider (though you frequently make me think I SHOULD be). I started reading because I stumbled across a link to a post you wrote about Susan’s final days with cancer. I continued reading because you’re funny, because you write well about things I’ll probably never do myself, and because you do great work for great organizations. LiveStrong is one of them, and LiveStrong is not Lance Armstrong. Maybe as a non-biker my opinion here is invalid, but to me his failure to come through as an athlete does not negate the good of the organization he started.
I’m curious — do you think you’ll be able/willing to work directly with him (giveaways, fundraisers, Twitter favors, etc.) in the future?
Time is a great healer. I hope we can. – FC
Comment by Sarah | The Cyclist's Wife | 01.16.2013 | 4:26 pm
Thank you for sharing your perspective and being honest. I don’t know Lance at all. Here is my perspective – http://www.thecyclistswife.blogspot.com/2013/01/cycling-doping-and-jackassery-lance.html
Comment by Northern Neighbor | 01.16.2013 | 4:27 pm
We don’t get very far in this world without trusting people. Sometimes that trust can only be as strong as a suspended disbelief.
Lance and LiveStrong are separate causes. We don’t have to believe in Lance to believe and support LiveStrong, regardless of whatever mixed motives its founder may have.
Well put. – FC
Comment by Skippy | 01.16.2013 | 4:33 pm
FATTY , YOU have nothing to apologise for ! YOU have treated people with a great deal more respect than some deserve . YOU have forgiven Levi , who i regard , in a somewhat different light .
The time will come when you will forgive Lance , just at the moment , that will be hard to believe for most of your readers ?
Lance dug himself into a hole as he got over Cancer , he had the chance then for a new beginning as he created ” LiveSTRONG ” but it was too easy to go along with those that painted the picture that he wanted to see .
Never took to flandis , used to like shamilton before he tried to ignore me in Athens but i have had both sides of Lance , good & bad . Praised me to the media, outside the Carillion Hotel , after the 2002 TDF and bitched at me for a remark made by another , about his abrupt behaviour as he arrived at the team bus , from the Bellinzola-Sion etappe during the TDS .
Remember him being real friendly on the Sunday ride to the Dauphine´sign on podium , after my having ridden the day before with Sheryl , signed a few items for friends also .
The Guy is an enigma , that even his mother doesn’t understand ! Can you think of any other Athlete , that had both George Bush and John Kerry , wearing his wristband and going out of their way to visit him ? i was there , when John arrived in the Warm up compound, for the ITT in 2004 , had the chance to introduce John to a bunch of Racers , Horny was too busy to join the throng .
Doubt the Interview when it screens at 0200 GMT will be worth staying awake for , but , i also think , a lot of people are expecting FAR TOO MUCH !
Betsy is , i think ,less friendly to me than Franky who i enjoy meeting at the TDF each year . I have ragged him over the years , so will be apologising in July . Emma used to feed me as i rode the TDF routes , whilst she worked for USPS team .
Cancer Treatment uses EPO ,in many cases of after care treatments and UCI dispense ” TUEs ” to Athletes , not surprising therefore , that until recently i thought he was permitted to use EPO , just as Petacci was allowed to use an Asthma Inhailler .
Currently the UCI are under attack as their ” UCIIC ” is not behaving as a lap dog . Should Lance choose to reveal what they were doing for him , there will be a path to Redemption for him ! http://www.uciic.org/press-release/
Got to stop as CNN are about to talk of Lance , ONCE AGAIN ! Speculation and video clips with Pedro saying the likes of ” That well known French Cycle Racer , LeMond “, beats SKY News , showing Contador as Lance !
Comment by Andy | 01.16.2013 | 4:34 pm
I have always believed that you can tell the good guys from the bad guys in 5 minutes.
I had the amazing good fortune to run into Jenni Laurita on the road a few years back. She spotted my “Category 6″ Twinsix shorts and struck up a conversation. In just a few minutes I could tell she was one of the good people in the world….So are you.
He never was.
Comment by none | 01.16.2013 | 4:35 pm
This is crap, Lance was a doped up bully who destroyed the lives of those who told the truth. You are a bully by association.
That’s some pretty persuasive logic you did there. I’ll bet you brought a lot of people over to your way of thinking with that reasoning. – FC
Comment by Jeremy | 01.16.2013 | 4:35 pm
This is pretty much exactly how I feel about Lance. I wanted to believe in him until it became obvious that he had not raced clean. Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts with us Fatty.
Comment by Mike C | 01.16.2013 | 4:35 pm
Fatty,
I don’t think that this:
“My inclination is to talk publicly about the good people do, and to keep my reservations about people to myself. That was a disservice to you.”
is a disservice to your readers.
There are far too many cynical jerks in the world. I’m glad you are not one of them.
Comment by Christina | 01.16.2013 | 4:37 pm
Do I get to ride rear rack or not?
I thought Lance was a real jerk in his early racing days. I don’t know if he changed much after that, but it was blown off because his team dropped him, he’s a cancer-survivor, on and on. I guess I’m saying that he’s never struck me as friendly.
You at least had really good reasons to not burn him immediately. You made me rethink judging people and to look at the good they do. Thank you for that.
Livestrong is still an amazing setup, with great programs that aren’t provided by ACS and the like. I will still support them.
Oh, one more question- Can you now befriend Taylor Phinney? Because he was super awesome to meet in Colorado and I’d like to donate money to something to earn a line in a spreadsheet and then get to ride with him.
This situation sucks. You are awesome.
Comment by facelessghost | 01.16.2013 | 4:37 pm
I’ve been away from the cycling scene long enough that the doping issue no longer really interests me. But there’s no avoiding the Armstrong affair. What surprises me is how personal the attack on Armstrong seems. I’m no friend or fan of Lance Armstrong, and I don’t defend his doping. But the nature of the campaign against him should be embarrassing for a lot of people. I keep hearing that this is about cycling and cleaning up the sport, but to me it looks like a lot of people just want to watch Lance burn.
Comment by karen shoup | 01.16.2013 | 4:37 pm
Thanks for your post, Fatty…. Yeah, I kinda feel used, too. I can understand your dilemma… and I think you have handled your response candidly and honestly,separating your feelings about Lance from your feelings about Livestrong. As a two time cancer survivor, I will continue to raise money for Livestrong, and I encourage others to see the goodness in that organization. I am hoping I can again join Team Fatty in Davis…. Pie, Pie, Pie!
Comment by Andrew Thieman | 01.16.2013 | 4:42 pm
You don’t owe anyone an apology. Your intentions were pure.
Thanks for writing this.
Comment by Mike | 01.16.2013 | 4:49 pm
Thanks for taking the time to put these complicated thoughts in to writing; I had wondered if you would. I am a long time reader and do not believe you owe your readership an apology. I think you have always been balanced and reasonable and that if you expressed some biases/preferences, then they were clearly telegraphed.
I also chose to believe in Lance for as long as it was reasonable to do so, and I have not regrets about doing so. While the truth is a little disappointing, it is not entirely surprising and it does not change my view that Lance has also done a lot of good and that it would be better if we saw this as shades of grey rather than devil or angel.
With thanks and wishing you a happy and healthy 2013.
Comment by StLouPSU | 01.16.2013 | 4:51 pm
Much like any good tragedy, we now see both sides of this story; the good and the evil, juxtaposed next to each other. But the truth is, no man is one thing or the other. No man can be all evil or all good. We are all a complex mix of each – some more one than the other.
However, what all of us uniformly believe in is the strength and virtue of the truth. And not the convenient ’self-truth’ that people tell themselves when they try to rationalize what they’re doing, but rather the truth that exists only between themselves and those that believe in them and for some, their god.
It seems absolutely clear now that Lance lied. Not only to himself, but to those that matter most; his family, his community, his friends and all of those that his acts have helped.
Fatty, because you unabashedly put yourself out here for all of us to enjoy. Because you never shy from the ugly, disgusting, wonderful truth. Because you’re human like all of us which allows you to believe that deep down all people are essentially good, you got stung. Deeply and permanently and it’s left you questioning your truthfulness, your vulnerability and likely your humanness.
Of anyone I’ve never met, you are the most human of us all so, by all means beat yourself with your stick for a while and listen to that internal red flag a little more diligently. And then get right back out here and keep having fun because damn it…we deserve the best of you!
Comment by Paul Guyot | 01.16.2013 | 4:51 pm
Until you come clean and admit your own cheating during our Eating Contest in Portland, Oregon, I have no time for you.
Good day, sir.
I said Good Day!
Comment by Christian Eckert | 01.16.2013 | 4:57 pm
I like this “interview” because it´s far away from cheating
Comment by deserthead | 01.16.2013 | 4:59 pm
Interesting post.
My take is that bad people (Armstrong) can do good things (assist cancer sufferers) for the wrong reasons (to shield his lying, cheating and bullying). Nothing wrong with supporting the good things as long as you expose and punish the bad people.
Comment by Vitaly Gashpar | 01.16.2013 | 4:59 pm
“It is better to be occasionally cheated than to live your life in suspicion.” – Whatever you feel now thinking of what you believed in hindsight, imagine all those years spent second guessing everything that was told to you? Kind of puts it all in perspective, doesn’t it?
Now for the non-rhetorical question: Why Livestrong? There are plenty of charities that drive money toward cancer research (as opposed to awareness/PR). Why not get involved with one of those?
LiveStrong does more than awareness/PR. It helps those who fighting cancer right now navigate the awfulness of cancer. And I definitely plan to continue to be involved with other cancer-related charities, as I have in the past. – FC
Comment by Lucas | 01.16.2013 | 5:05 pm
I have felt that, with regard to his Tour wins, he was doping in a field of dopers, so how can we call him a cheater when “everyone” was cheating (not an absolute, I know, but for “all in tents and porpoises”)?
Doping and allegations of cheating aside, he has done wonders in the fight against cancer; if “cheating” helped Lance gain notoriety and he in turn used that notoriety to advance the cause of cancer research? I say that this may be one of the very few times where the ends may very much justify the means.
I appreciate the sentiment, but disagree. Cheating isn’t OK when others cheat. That merely propagates the problem. And I think he cheated to win, not to further the fight against cancer. – FC
Comment by Elizabeth | 01.16.2013 | 5:08 pm
Everyone doped, so to have a level playing field and fulfil his destiny, Lance had to too. He didn’t test positive, so there was no single “good time” to come clean. Yes, lying is wrong, but when the stakes are so high and public, your team depend on keeping it quiet, team management say to deny everything and you are giving the most amazing gift of hope to cancer fighters everywhere, I can see why he didn’t have a problem with this lie. But, I should admit, I’m finding it hard to let go of the heroric Lance I’ve watched for years.
Why do you think Lance lied/confessed as he did/has?
See my answer to Lucas at 5:05 (directly above) and to Curtis at 1/16, 4:04pm. – FC
Comment by Jouni | 01.16.2013 | 5:09 pm
Hmm….I’m not sure where to start…
The fact that you are someone who wants to see the good is not a bad thing. Quite the contrary.
I’ve been in the camp for many, many years that he was doping…maybe something ( at the time) new, maybe he was better at it. Turns out the latter was true.
I’ve been out of competitive cycling (yeah… I stopped 45 pounds ago) for a while, and the doping issue during that era just makes me shrug my shoulders. It was the most corrupt era in cycling – the fact that he was the best of the corrupt doesn’t impact me at all. The racing was insanely intense and compelling, albeit fueled by modern chemistry. Let’s not forget that from that era (the 7 LA Tours), 20 of 21 podium positions have been implicated and/or banned re doping.
The fact that you chose to believe in someone who showed compassion to you in a difficult period makes you so completely human. You believe in an organization that is doing enormous good to support many, many people… You don’t need to apologize for anything…you’re being you, and that’s why WE are here.
I got your back.
Comment by Tim R | 01.16.2013 | 5:09 pm
I’ll say one thing for this whole sorry mess; it’s made me ride my bike more. Every time I read another piece, I make myself grab a bike and go…
Tough situation – he was decent to you in a time of real need, but he’s betrayed your trust. Does it outweigh his kindness to you? Dunno.
And you never need to apologise for sticking to your beliefs, mate – ever. We all cop the rough end of the pineapple from time to time, even if we think we’re doing the right thing.
Comment by Jenni | 01.16.2013 | 5:13 pm
Andy- Best compliment EVER! Thank you so much!!
Comment by Hannah | 01.16.2013 | 5:13 pm
Do you think Lance should be allowed to retain his 7TDF titles?
Absolutely not. – FC
Comment by Lesley | 01.16.2013 | 5:14 pm
From my side, only a fan and tiny donator, it is a little easier to separate the person from the scandal (and perhaps the person from the organization). I feel like good people back themselves into lying corners all the time, and how “big” it is doesn’t really matter when we’re deciding whether or not we can still love them. I am glad you published this. The light has to start shining somewhere, and maybe someone else will be encouraged to stand in the whole truth, no matter what.
Comment by CL | 01.16.2013 | 5:17 pm
Thanks for this! Best most honest sounding, selfless description I’ve seen.
How do you perceive actions like the possible use of livestrong resources/lobbyist to stop actions against LA? Other blurred lines of how money was spent. Do they need to reveal financials? Why should anyone give to them over the American cancer society, legit non profits, etc…
Thanks,
CL
I don’t understand all the particulars, but think it might have been a heat of the battle decision. It doesn’t worry me. I think though that LiveStrong should focus on being hyper-transparent right now, to show the world they have nothing at all to hide.
As to which nonprofit you donate to, that’s a personal decision. I’ve raised money for LiveStrong, World Bicycle Relief, Young Survivor’s Coalition, and the Huntsman Foundation. They all do different, wonderful things. Get to know one or more of these charities (or a different one that suits your passion) and take it up as your personal cause. No matter who you help, you’ll be improving the world. – FC
Comment by Heather | 01.16.2013 | 5:19 pm
Would you say you do not support Lance now? In your opinion what is different between Lance and Levi or Hincapie? They both doped and blame it on Lance but they had a choice to make. Don’t you still support Levigrandfondo? It seems a little unfair that everyone is after Lance but he is at least offering restituitions, I don’t see Hincapie doing that and he got money from the same team and he was doping even before Lance was on the team, plus he and Levi took a deal to testify??
“Support” is a tricky word here. I still appreciate the good Lance has done, for me and my family, as well as for LiveStrong. I don’t support the decisions he’s made to lie to and hurt others. I would be happy to reboot our relationship at some point, but have no idea whether he would even want to.
The differences between dopers is incremental. There’s no perfect way to punish them, and I’m glad it’s not my job to make the decisions. For what it’s worth, I don’t like that of everyone, George Hincapie seems to have gotten off pretty much without consequence: his suspension didn’t begin ’til after his retirement. – FC
Comment by Snowcatcher | 01.16.2013 | 5:21 pm
Add me to the (HUGE) collection of fans who love your blog because you are honest and try to find the good in every situation. I, too, don’t believe you owe any apologies, and I think in this post you’ve encompassed what a lot of us have felt the last couple of years.
Comment by Maggi | 01.16.2013 | 5:29 pm
Andy’s comment about Jenni Laurita is ALMOST accurate– she’s not just one of the good people, she’s one of the BEST.
And, Elden, you are too. The fact that you kept focusing on the positives is a good reminder for me to do the same.
And to commenter “none”, comment posted at 4:35pm– you are free to have your opinions, but spouting ugly words from a screen of anonymity just makes me think you know how shameful those words really are.
Comment by Aido | 01.16.2013 | 5:32 pm
Dear Elden,
I’m with you here. Being someone over in Ireland wanting to see the good and having it totally cloud my judgement. He was a bully & a cheat, but I think that the lifetime ban is over the top, seeing as thy broke the statute of limitations.
As for an apology from you….. Not a chance! Keep on trucking.
Lesson learned. He’s definitely a fallen hero but hopefully LiveStrong will survive.
I’ll keep wearing my LiveStrong gear and wristband, and riding my bike.
Comment by AC | 01.16.2013 | 5:37 pm
No need for any apology, I think you’ve always been pretty clear with your readers. Armstrong should apologize to you though.
Like a lot of things, Armstrong in total isn’t entirely black or white, but many shades of grey IMO. He may be an ahole and have cheated, along with others, that doesn’t mean he hasn’t accomplished good in other areas.
Comment by Susie H | 01.16.2013 | 5:40 pm
I reckon we’ll see you on June 23, right on schedule…:)
Yup. – FC
Comment by Sherri | 01.16.2013 | 5:40 pm
I appreciate your honesty. I did on earlier posts and respect you for it. Never apologize for believing in people. I do my best to believe in someone until there is a concrete reason not to. Like you I hope something good rises from the ashes.
Thank you
Comment by roadrash | 01.16.2013 | 5:53 pm
What a tangled web. I’ve followed cycling since before the Festina affair, and I never really thought Lance was completely clean. He is so ultra competitive and he drills every single detail (technology, team, training, everything). Just assumed EPO was another detail for him to be the very best at.
I’ll still follow cycling, but will always assume some rules are being bent or broken.
But I have never felt that way about Fatcyclist.com. It has always felt like we are getting the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Highs, lows, good days, rough days. Always the insightful, messy, inside scoop. Nothing hidden.
Question for Fatty: Do you think fundraising groups will shy away from sports personalities like Lance, Johan, Tiger in the future? Or do they help bring in too much money & support to forego?
I think that in a few weeks, this scandal will be forgotten by everyone not obsessed with cycling. Fundraising groups, like others, will continue to use celebrities — including sports celebrities. Sometimes they’ll get burned, but not often. – FC
Comment by Russ Mullo | 01.16.2013 | 5:57 pm
commonality is fundraising .. that comes from the heart …. You are a part of the fun sport of cycling and that won’t be affected by all this crap. And for those who call it there livelyhood/job, well they may all be in the sport for the wrong reason. Just in over his head with too much to loose. Lance was part of grand fondo charity rides well before he was a houshold name. I’d like to think Lance didn’t piss on anyone who didn’t reap some benefits from him.
Especially hoping you reaped some benefit :)
Comment by Sharon | 01.16.2013 | 6:16 pm
Fatty – Nice blog. I am just curious why you seem to still support Levi but not Lance. I agree that Lance did a lot more damage to cycling and people in cycling and out but didn’t Levi and the other dopers (George, Tom, Christian, Tom) also do great damage, lie and then benefited greatly from theri lies? They came cleam and got a hand slap. I think Lance’s ban is correct (I don’t think he should have a wrist slap!) but I don’t think the other bans were nearly enough. I struggle with how the public seems to forgive them completely when there are so many examples of cyclists who did not dope and thus had lesser careers or no careers.
I think time and efforts toward reparations are the big factors. In Levi’s case, I’d say he’s being affected in a way that seems much greater than a hand slap. – FC
Comment by Tom S. | 01.16.2013 | 6:21 pm
Fatty,
You are a kind and trusting individual who always hopes the better angels of our nature win out. If more people trusted and thought like you the world would be a better place indeed. Your apology is accepted but not needed because you, like so many others, believe in the burden of proof.
You are and always will be accepted as a wonderful human being.
Comment by Aussie kev | 01.16.2013 | 6:26 pm
Fat man, it sounds like Oprah needs to interview you so you can apologise for this !!!
. You were on that rental bike and were enjoying not having to dodge potholes with wheels that you didn’t need to worry about truing.
Allez fat man!!
Ps I still have a copy of the twin six WIN with the tear drop on the stem of my track bike. Inspires me every time I race!!
Comment by Gary Martin | 01.16.2013 | 6:32 pm
Fatty,
I think that your approach, given how this played out, was both humane and objective and I hope you don’t change how you judge controversial matters because of this. Those who want to deify and those who want to demonize public figures are usually equally out of balance. Only time and distance will lend perspective to this piece of cycling history. What we’re seeing in the media now is too much heat and too little light. However, both what you wrote and what you didn’t write over the last couple of years were helpful to me in making judgments about LiveStrong & about Lance. Thank you for the entertainment, the information, and most of all, for the perspective that you provide here.
Comment by Tim | 01.16.2013 | 6:36 pm
Hi Elden, I’m one of the scorched earth types. My appreciation of your fundraising was a result of the TourChats talk. I do however have misgivings about Dempsey and the Danielson links too. I respect you more for reading your blog today. Good luck with your future endeavours! Cheers Tim
Comment by Chris | 01.16.2013 | 6:40 pm
No apology necessary. I came around to the “Lance probably doped” opinion a while back, and I really respect that you’ve chosen to keep this blog positive. And you are absolutely NOT foolish for believing in Lance. I’d rather be disappointed over and over again because I believed in people than burned even once because I didn’t.
Comment by Flyin' Ute | 01.16.2013 | 6:44 pm
Fatty,
Watching Lance race in the first TDF after his Cancer treatment was amazing! The odds of him winning, even if he was doping, were stacked against him.
That first race was a triumphant!
I always hoped he was clean.
I think we all became more skeptical over time as the results became more suspicious.
Lance cheated himself the most. He was a brilliant tactician and seemed more prepared than anyone else.
I loved being a fan if for only that brief time.
Lance is not alone in his fall from grace. We have all sinned.
We all need forgiveness.
I will still stand with Lance if he truly repents!
I like that POV. – FC
Comment by Micha | 01.16.2013 | 6:45 pm
Fatty
No apolopgy required for me Lance fooled nearly all of us. I believed him too.
Comment by Connie Specht | 01.16.2013 | 7:03 pm
Great post; consider yourself in good company if you feel like you were manipulated. As far as I’m concerned, you stood by someone (like any decent person would) even when you had doubts. Shame on Lance for taking all of that for granted.
Comment by Brandy | 01.16.2013 | 7:07 pm
Fatty, I really liked today’s post. And this kind of heart felt post is why I have and will continue to read your blog. Thank you for continuing to blog.
Will you be doing anymore fundraising with Dustin? He seems like a good guy too.
See you in October. -Brandy
Absolutely I’ll continue to fundraise for YSC with Dustin. Moreso, in fact. – FC
Comment by Doug (Way upstate NY) | 01.16.2013 | 7:24 pm
For me the world would be a terrible place if I didn’t believe in the good of people. No worries Elden.
And I can vouch that Jenni is a GREAT person. Well except that she can be bossy sometimes. And she made me change her bar tape the night before a century ride. But yeah, other than that she is awesome :)
Seriously though, Jenni I am stoked you are coming to CO to crew for me next summer.
Comment by Heather K. | 01.16.2013 | 7:24 pm
I have been a fan of cycling since I was a little kid. I wanted to ride like Greg LeMond and to have my speed gauged by riding next to a semi truck like in Breaking Away. I loved watching Lance ride his bike first and foremost. I won’t forget the experiences I had while watching him. Or watching Leipheimer, Hincapie, Hamilton, Vaughters and all the rest of the cyclists from this era. Many of us believed in these guys. They did super-human things and it was exciting to watch.
But, they were all just human not super-human and thus fallable. As far as I can tell, the guys that have all come clean have done it to apologize, to make amends and to clean up the sport they love for the riders that are now coming up the ranks.
Lance is not doing it for those reasons. I doubt his confession will be satisfactory nor will his contrition. That’s why LiveStrong will suffer going forward. I agree that LiveStrong provides a valuable service to those with cancer. The organization helped my mother when she had breast cancer. Lance’s bully tendencies were helpful when advocating for this cause. But those tactics were also used to intimidate and “incinerate” people he viewed as threats.
It’s incredibly unfortunate and somewhat ironic that the one thing Lance did right – LiveStrong – is the one thing that will likely suffer the most from this. Cycling will go on. The other riders that doped will go on. I hope LiveStrong does, too.
Thanks for writing, Fatty. You aren’t the one with the flaw by having faith in people.
Comment by JulieB | 01.16.2013 | 7:26 pm
I also don’t think you were one-sided about Lance. From prior posts, you made it clear that you were about the good someone does. Nothing wrong with admitting your bias. Livestrong does some great things.
It’s pretty obvious that Lance is paranoid and calculating in his relationships with others- the relationships usually benefit him and not the other person in the long run. Not someone I would want as a friend.
Comment by Jim B | 01.16.2013 | 7:33 pm
I wish that every single person who claims to be outraged at Armstrong and his doping will live up to their bluster and refuse to watch any NFL games from now on … and college for that matter as well.
I don’t think I have ever watched a complete football game of any kind. Do I get credit for that? – FC
Comment by Keith F | 01.16.2013 | 7:40 pm
To add my voice to the voices of many (and many who I suspect read but don’t comment), you have no need to apologize, but it doesn’t surprise me in the slightest that you are big enough to do it. I am constantly humbled and amazed but your spirit and love to read about your exploits. Your voice is your choice and I for one will continue to tune in as an avid fan and supporter. Best to you and yours, Keith.
Comment by Wife#1 | 01.16.2013 | 7:59 pm
@Lucas, you summed up (in far fewer words), my feelings about Lance perfectly. And @Jim B – exactly!
I don’t have an issue with Lance being punished for “cheating and lying”, but it seems to me his punishment is way harsher than others, and even guilty, this whole thing still has the “trophy hunt, bagging big game” aspect that really disturbs me.
When I see how many sportswriters (not enough to succeed but it was still A LOT) just voted to have known baseball dopers inducted into the Hall of Fame, it really pisses me off.
There is so much rampant doping happening in so many sports, and yet we are spending a huge amount of time and resources on a very small number of people who did it in the past.
I don’t understand why we are not focusing on a clean slate for this next generation, better monitoring going forward, and looking across the sports world to where it’s happening.
Lance may have some deep character flaws, most people who are “great” in some way do, but I will never regret the time spent watching him compete, and even without that, the good he has done in the fight against cancer wipes out everything else for me.
I wish him well and hope he can get back to doing good in the world at some point.
But whatever happens with Lance, Livestrong will continue to have my full support.
Comment by Eric | 01.16.2013 | 8:06 pm
Fatty,
You’re a very good person. Don’t feel guilty about being duped like so many. Keep on doing what you do which is excellent and noble work. You are touching so many people in positive ways and that is great for them and you. Things were very clearly difficult for you with Susan, but you are blessed to be able to use that and help so many as a result. I will continue to enjoy your blog. Be well. Thanks
Comment by Diego | 01.16.2013 | 8:08 pm
Loved your post. It made me regret the condemning position I took after the “reasoned decision”.
Bought your book afterwards: Another cause for regret looming!
Comment by @julesmpg | 01.16.2013 | 8:10 pm
Well done and bravely spoken. I moved by your honesty and courage to say you were wrong. That is a step many wouldn’t take. Kudos
Comment by roan | 01.16.2013 | 8:13 pm
Read your posting today twice, and all the comments posted. Pondered a comment, but what to say and do I need to send one ? Maybe yes, for me.
I wish I could still believe in Lance, Floyd, Levi, Tyler(because he lost a dog)and so many others. What you have provided is a whole list of ‘friends’ on the comments, only a very few I have met at Davis, Angie G. Jenni Laurita and The Hammer these I will believe. Grand Slams for Zambia, 100MoN, The Noodleator, Jill Homer and others from your blog roll, in a word “PRICELESS”
ps; you push me ! thanks.
Comment by Ian | 01.16.2013 | 8:16 pm
Is it about the bike?
Everything is about the bike. – FC
Comment by Chase | 01.16.2013 | 8:16 pm
Fatty, I don’t comment often, but I’ve been reading your blog for the last few years. Like the others who have commented, I don’t think you’re to blame here. We’re all disappointed, and I understand your reaction, but yeah, no reason to take blame.
Totally with you on your view toward LiveStrong as well. I don’t have a lot of disposable income, but when I’m able, I’ll continue to be a part of your fundraisers, including those benefitting LiveStrong.
Comment by Marc | 01.16.2013 | 8:20 pm
I understand your thoughts and your desire to comment on the situation, and in my opinion you wrote a well stated commentary. But, you knew it was coming, Lance and Livestrong are/were a vehicle for what was important, fighting cancer. I am a prostate cancer survivor, and through participation in your efforts, I felt that I had a small opportunity to make my personal fight against cancer count more. Strength in numbers and so forth. My advice, shake the dust off and move forward, I am certain that I and many others will be glad to go along. And as a different note, I am looking forward to the Fight Like Susan book whenever it appears, your telling of the story is what caught my attention and caused me to hang around here. I guess that too is part of getting back to what matters. Thanks Elden.
Comment by Suzy H | 01.16.2013 | 8:38 pm
I really feel sadness about this whole situation. LiveStrong is a great organization for folks who have cancer and need help. I will continue to support the good work that the folks ther do.
Comment by wash | 01.16.2013 | 8:48 pm
I appreciated this thoughtful post, as I appreciate most of what you write.
I feel like there is something more to say, however. I have long been a Lance skeptic. In my opinion, the Gifford/Outside article raised serious questions about Livestrong, and I remember reading your more-or-less dismissal of it and thinking fine, we’ll agree to disagree.
However… directly because of you, I have donated hundreds of dollars to Livestrong over the past few years. My donations were motivated by your sincerity (and of course the awesome prizes). I donated despite my concern about Livestrong and its role in promoting the mythos of Lance. In essence, I donated to a cause that made me uneasy, because I trusted you.
I do not think that Livestrong is a bad organization, or that I was tricked in any way. I don’t think you own anyone an apology, because I don’t think you acted improperly or counter to your own moral compass, in any way. You have done, and are doing, what you think is right, and the world would be a better place if more people did the same.
But I do think that regarding Lance, your relationship with your readers is deeper than, say, a journalists’s relationship with his readers.
You articulated why I felt like I needed to apologize better than I have been able to. – FC
Comment by M | 01.16.2013 | 8:51 pm
This is how my friends and I from the childhood cancer world feel about Lance. If you have a second Fatty, read her post on It’s Not About the Bike.
http://canicontrolmylifeificantcontrolmyhair.blogspot.com/
Pingback by Lance and Oprah plus The Legal Ramifications of Coming Clean | Rant Your Head Off | 01.16.2013 | 8:59 pm
[...] at The Fat Cyclist site, Fatty interviews himself and in the process pens a thoughtful piece about his nuanced support of Lance the Cancer Fighter, [...]
Comment by davidh-marin,ca | 01.16.2013 | 9:01 pm
Wife#1 sums my thoughts in far fewer words than I, and I thank her for highlighting @Lucas and @JimB. In fact every comment here has merit, except of course @none, apparently they have their own dark place in which they live.
Barry Bonds let his best friend go to jail, and I’m still not sure how I feel about Levi having him as a special ‘guest’ at the Fondo, but that’s for another day and forum.
I rode RAGBRAI in 2010 with LiveSTRONG and met the most serious, committed people for, and recipients of the benefits of this Foundation. I too will continue to support this organization, and I WILL, accept Lance’s apology if offered.
The first Step is to admit the problem. The Making Amends step comes later, and if you have ever had the experience you’ll know how difficult that step is….for both of you.
As for you Elden, I will not accept an apology, because none was asked for and none required. I will THANK YOU for today’s post. And while you may be bloodied remain unbowed to your core beliefs and I will follow when asked.
Comment by Paul Guyot | 01.16.2013 | 9:09 pm
And another thing…
What you left out of your interview, and what (hopefully) Oprah pulled out of Lance is this one truism:
that there actually is an easier way of making a living then racing my bike.
Comment by ac | 01.16.2013 | 9:12 pm
Black and white, or grey?
Fatty, for your interest,
Thanks for all your writings over the past few years. Funny, insightful, inspiring, touching, thoughtful/thought-provoking, reasoned, fair, silly. In short great stuff.
Thanks.
You almost need to do a “moods of” diagram a’la Gary Larson,
Hope there’s more variation than a Red Setter. If not, hey that could be hilarious too.
Love your work.
Comment by ac | 01.16.2013 | 9:17 pm
There *were* a couple of URLs in that previous comment but seem to have gone walkies somehow.
Let’s see if they come through this time.
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/lances-shades-of-grey-20130116-2ctoz.html
and
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Bxr8zaN0YY4/TLv3tm-vR4I/AAAAAAAAACw/Ic4qpfHSzIY/s320/GaryLarsonSetter_1.jpg
Comment by Liz M. | 01.16.2013 | 9:26 pm
I thought you were always forthright about how well you knew (or didn’t know) Lance and how you coped with the ambivalence and suspicions that surrounded him. No need to apologize. Some of the professional journalists, though . . .
Thank you for your insights on Livestrong — there must be a lot of anguish among the rank and file there.
Comment by Mike from Guelph | 01.16.2013 | 9:55 pm
Fatty, I’m not going to let you off so easy. My question is why take a stance at all, especially before all the facts of the issue are known? We still haven’t heard Lance’s side on a tv talkshow or in sworn testimony? I appreciate your personal connection with Livestrong but why, after waiting this long, not just wait another 48 hours, the Oprah confession hasn’t even aired yet. You don’t even know what Lance has said or seen his expression whilst saying it. Livestrong hasn’t had an opportunity to show the world exactly what it will do without Lance or if it will welcome their founder back with forgiving arms. You admit to being burned several times when you took a stance, so if you are sincere, why continue the same behaviour? Livestrong ignored all the same signals as everyone else and it should and will cost them something – and ultimately that will hurt the people they try to help.
Maybe Lance will drop an unexpected bombshell and we will be back to worshipping him by the weekend and you will be back apologizing on Monday – unlikely I know.
Maybe taking a stance just makes for better reading then staying silent on a blog. I wouldn’t be commenting if you had.
Maybe I should take my own advice and just stay silent.
All that aside, looking forward to more Fatty and less Lance in 2013.
Comment by Al Pastor | 01.16.2013 | 10:00 pm
I look forward to reading amusing things that you think of while riding your bike. Myself, i’m getting tired of it being too cold to ride outdoors and look forward to February when it warms up a bit. And, frankly I never rode/raised money for Lance. I did it for myself. He seemed like a typical pro athlete. You kind of have to be a self centered jerk to succeed in that business. Good think you can be a nice guy and still write an awesome blog.
See you in Davis.
Comment by LKB3 | 01.16.2013 | 10:04 pm
Good post, Fatty. I appreciate your refusal to see this as a one-side-or-the-other thing. If there’s one thing that we must keep in mind when someone does wrong, it’s that our wrongs are not the totality of who we are.
Comment by Roger Whitney | 01.16.2013 | 10:13 pm
I understand your need to apologize and I accept it. Always surround yourself with people that make you a better person. There is no time in life for those that don’t. That is why I read you and feel privileged to have met you. You are a good influence on us and we on you. Be well. Fatty. Roger
Comment by Leroy | 01.16.2013 | 10:34 pm
FC — as usual, an excellent and thoughtful post. You don’t need to apologize for seeing and believing the best of people. There is enough sadness and disappointment in the world that we don’t have to go looking for it.
Lance has done some good and will no doubt do more. He will no doubt suffer greatly for the wrong he has done. That is the human condition. He differs from the rest of us in degree, not kind.
Those of us who enjoyed watching him ride and applauded his philanthropy don’t need an apology. The people who deserve amends are the people he unfairly attacked on and off the bike.
Comment by bob | 01.16.2013 | 10:40 pm
Fatty,
No need for an apology and, frankly, Lance should apologize to you.
I never realized until now but that cowboy hat on Floyd just makes him LOOK guilty!
BTW – is it okay if I just go ahead and ride a local century with my 100MoN gear on? They usually end up on about the same weekend.
Comment by Michael | 01.16.2013 | 10:40 pm
There’s this lady at work who asked me about Lance last year. I gave her the info and told her about Damien Ressiot and Chatenay Malabry. I told her about the flunked cortisone test and Betsy’s testimony. I told her I was pretty sure Lance had doped.
Today, we bumped into each other again, that coworker and I. She told me how upset she is about the whole situation. We talked about it for a bit, and I said, “you know, he really never stole anything from me, so I can’t be too bitter.” I realized that I simply don’t harbor ill will against the guy, even if I’m disappointed with what he did.
He may never make everything right again, and he certainly won’t on Oprah. (Seriously, Lance, Oprah?) But I really can’t hold a grudge against him. I mean, I’ve had all the evidence I’ve needed for at least the last three years. That’s plenty of time for it to settle in my gut.
I’m just happy that I can now express my opinion on the subject without getting flamed for it all over the Internet, and without feeling like I’ll offend folks like you, Fatty. That’s a bit of a relief, honestly.
I’m sorry you ever had to worry about offending me. – FC
Comment by Bryan | 01.16.2013 | 10:43 pm
Thanks for another good post. By the way, I didn’t want an apology, and I feel weird getting one.
I’m sorry no wait. – FC
Comment by Karen A. McWhirt | 01.16.2013 | 10:48 pm
Hi Elden,
I appreciate what you’ve written. I know many people are conflicted over what Lance has done. I don’t share my opinions publicly, but I thought you might be interested in this post from a friend of my son Ian who succumbed to testicular cancer in 2005. I think this is how many people feel about Lance now. The post is from Facebook and includes a photo of Ian with his two best friends, one who wrote the post below. Thanks again, Elden. -Karen A. McWhirt
“Lately in the news you hear about Lance Armstrong and the controversy that surronds him. He displays himself on national tv and states he lied about his success. He states that he decieved others. Point blank he used cancer to uplift himself and lied on how he overcame. I hear others give excuses for Lance Armstrong and sympathize because “he had cancer”. They say Lance Armstrong is a hero that strayed from the right. Let me tell you about a hero. The man pictured below is Ian Drazick, my best friend. He was diagnosed with testicular cancer in november 2004 and died in March 2005. In his final months Ian wore the lance armstrong “live strong” bracelet. He used it as motivation as I did as I looked into Ian’s eyes and said if he can beat it so can you. My best friend drew his strength from a liar, deciever and a complete fraud. How dare armstrong sympathize with those that have to say goodbye. My hero would answer the phone and wouldnt talk about himself but wanted to know how you were. My hero, in extreme pain, made it a point to see me off to boot camp not knowing it would be the last time we spoke. Lance Armstrong said look what I did and lied, Ian Drazick said wasn’t life great? Don’t forget me” -K. Mickle
Comment by David | 01.16.2013 | 10:58 pm
Said in a mild tone:
Seriously? Your interactions with him were 99% positive. It makes perfect sense to assume good things based on that. Whatever cheating/bullying he’s done (a lot, it seems) your positive experiences are real. Better yet, you funneled those good things to others. I understand feeling cheated, but you, in turn, cheated no one.
Thanks for telling your part of it, though. It’s nice to see behind the curtain.
Comment by Adam | 01.16.2013 | 11:00 pm
Fatty -
You owe no one an apology. Lance did what Lance did, but he tried to comfort you and your family. I think back to the night Susan passed (okay, probably weird that I can recall this pretty well but I was a pretty heavy Fat Cyclist fan at the time) and Lance was there wishing for the best when the worst happened. In my opinion, you earned the right to some rose colored glasses with regards to Lance. You’re not a journalist by trade, you don’t deal in facts. You deal in Fatty’s thoughts.
Livestrong seems to be getting ready for a rough patch but they seem to believe they can make it through, and I don’t doubt their will to fight the good fight. Lance will get what is coming to him.
Comment by BoboFett3 | 01.16.2013 | 11:14 pm
Very good piece. I think it illustrates one of the difficulties of this whole fiasco. Life is full of gray areas, where there is very little black and white. And that is why, at least in small part, people enjoy sport. The most talented, hardest worker, always wins. And, if they cheat, they get punished. However, the Lance Case, while rooted in sport, bleeds over into real life. And that is what makes it so difficult. Was it wrong he cheated in a sport full of cheaters, yes. But did he do good outside of sport, absolutely. And that is further compounded that his good was built on a bad. And, to make it even more difficult, Lance doesn’t always come off as the type of guy that would walk your grandmother across the street.
From the start, Gifford’s story has really, really bothered me. When we start bashing a guys works outside of sport, because of something he did in sport (all though they are connected), it starts to reek of personal vendetta. It really makes me uncomfortable when people start to refer to LiveStrong as a tax shelter. That, I think, proves what I what I have thought about this all along. Its not about cheating, its about Lance. I don’t see Walsh asking Levi if he is going to pay back all of his prize money, or bash his charity. I don’t see anyone calling for Big George to remove himself from his clothing brand. All of these guys doped, all of these guys lied, all of these guys profited from a lie, and none of them voluntarily confessed. So why they aren’t they getting hammered? Because this isn’t about doping, this isn’t about cycling, this isn’t about cheating. This is about Lance. And that is wrong.
Comment by ChinookPass | 01.16.2013 | 11:17 pm
Fatty, I’ve said it before, you are a force for good.
We’ve all had an education about pro sports these past couple of decades. It’s been a wild ride. But the ones we take on our bikes are so much sweeter.
Can’t wait to hear about that 5 mile run. I hope it is as wonderful as I’m imagining.
Comment by ClydeinKS | 01.16.2013 | 11:23 pm
Fatty – another excellent post and no apologies needed. Thank you for obtaining Lance’s shoes and allowing me the opportunity to win them. I still have them on display and are an inspiration.
There is no doubting Lance put in hours upon hours of rigorous training and the physical dedication is well documented. I believe he still would have won if no PEDs were used, maybe not 7 but I’d guess 3 or 4 at least. I believe it was a level playing field and the era cannot be ignored, it was at its peak in popularity – as was baseball during its steroid era.
Many seem to believe and take the stance that it all started with and now ends with Lance. I don’t believe for a minute that the managment team, ownership, and UCI had no idea of the rampant usage. I am very interested to see where this leads and how high on that hierarchy Lance was.
I am thankful you are going to continue supporting LiveSTRONG and provide a larger platform for us to assist. I do wear yellow and have since my Dad’s diagnosis. Thankfully Lance did start the foundation and mission, but also thankfully now through this time there remains many people who are able to separate the two – as they are and should be.
So many great questions to you here already, nothing to add. Looking forward to your follow-up.
Thank you Fatty for continuing to do good (AMAZING) things! Despite how they clash – I wear my orange, and pink, and yellow proudly!
Comment by Mike | 01.16.2013 | 11:27 pm
Yeah, he leveraged your wife’s illness and your faith for his own gain.
Livestrong are the ones who should be handing Lance a lifetime ban.
I’d rather see a guy like you in the head offices at Livestrong than Lance.
Trust me, I would be horrible at that. – fC
Comment by Mike T | 01.16.2013 | 11:33 pm
Hi. I thought you were one sided and a shill for Lance and Johan at a time when it was very clear what they had done to the sport of cycling. His “victims” were well on the record at that time, and I thought the unabashed support of this character was off-putting.
That said I appreciate your candor and I respect that you want to see the best in people. And I understand that his initial approach and gestures towards you were genuine. thanks for the interview.
Thanks for expressing that POV in a totally civil way. I appreciate that. – FC
Comment by Aaron | 01.16.2013 | 11:35 pm
Fatty,
I too am like you and wanting to believe in people. I believe in you and what you do, I believe in livestrong and in what they do. I still believe in Lance and what he does to bring about an end to cancer. I hope that I can continue to ride with you and team fatty at the Livestrong challenge. See you in Davis this June.
Comment by WindPixie | 01.16.2013 | 11:45 pm
Life would be really miserable if we doubted everything anyone said to us. One goes along, trusting many and hoping to trust all, and sometimes we get burned. You don’t need to apologize.
PS: Saw you and The Hammer today. People we care about are on the same swim team.
Comment by David | 01.17.2013 | 12:21 am
The beauty in this blog, the comments, the people, is a bit overwhelming.
Thank you
No, thank you. – FC
Comment by Michael Collins | 01.17.2013 | 12:24 am
Great Post, Elden.
It is great to see polite conversation online on a topic that makes many people descend into rudeness and hostility.
On Lance, I think – objectively – that the good still outweighs the bad. On the cycling front, Lance rode in a period that was clearly tainted. That is not meant as an excuse or an alibi, just the way it was. Hopefully the future will improve for professional cycling. Drug testing will improve – biological paassort etc – and hopefully the UCI, IOC and the other alphabet governing bodies will finally get the act together. Sponsors should also take on board the concerns of fans to make and ensure the sport is clean.
I hope everyone gets this out of their system so we can all get back to just the cycling. Thanks for your post and your website.
Best wishes for 2013.
I agree; I’m really pleased at the civility here. Lots of serious, well-considered statements. – FC
Comment by Zlatko | 01.17.2013 | 12:27 am
I belive nobody is a saint and nobody is completely devil. Lance too-it just happens that when he did good things and bad things (like we all do) he did them on a much greater scale. What’s my point? It looks like there were two camps -pro Lance and anti lance-they are both sort of right.
Comment by AKChick55 | 01.17.2013 | 2:00 am
Thanks for interviewing yourself! Your interview is the best commentary I’ve hard on this subject. Thanks for taking the time to write it. I don’t think you need to apologize.
I always find it interesting when cowardly people leave anonymous posts specifically saying you are a bully by association. That makes absolutely no sense. What an idiot. Oops, now I’m calling people names, but hey truth hurts.
I agree with Jim B: “I wish that every single person who claims to be outraged at Armstrong and his doping will live up to their bluster and refuse to watch any NFL games from now on … and college for that matter as well.”
I would like to add major league baseball, track and field, swimming, etc., etc., etc.
I believe almost everyone deserves to be forgiven. I just wish that I believed that Lance was confessing (if that is what happens tomorrow) for the right reasons. The doping doesn’t bother me as much as the bullying and self-righteous indignation towards his accusers. It’s a sad mess.
Amen sister. – FC
Comment by HighPlainsDrifter | 01.17.2013 | 2:31 am
A journalist has a responsibility to tell the truth. But he doesn’t have a responsibility to cover every base, or to be a one-stop-shop for everything from soup to nuts. (Technically a mixed metaphor, but I thought it was close enough for government work.)
To thine own self be true. If you can do that, then rock on, and you don’t owe nobody no how.
Comment by Kimberly Coats | 01.17.2013 | 3:08 am
Thank you Fat Cyclist….I saw this blog come across Twitter this morning, clicked on the link and read. I had been thinking about all of this, wanting to write but thinking my voice really wouldn’t have impact. You inspired me to speak..thank you! I found it ironic you said “rises from the ashes” at the end of your blog. The Team Rwanda Cycling documentary is named, Rising From Ashes and is currently making the round of film festivals. I hope you get an opportunity to see it some day.
http://kimberlycoats.blogspot.com/2013/01/shame-on-you-lanceshame-on-you-oprah.html
Comment by Aaron | 01.17.2013 | 3:47 am
Thanks for sharing with us, Fatty.
Because of the stigma surrounding Livestrong, have you considered finding another, similar charity to support? I know it isn’t easy, and maybe it shouldn’t have to be this way, but maybe your followers would feel a lot more comfortable avoiding that connection. What matters is whatever gets fundraising done, and that it goes somewhere good.
I look forward to hearing all the doping jokes you’ve been saving up.
Comment by Shugg McGraw | 01.17.2013 | 5:39 am
Cycled to work today. And for the last ten years. Why? Because I was inspired to get on a bike by Lance. I’ll always be grateful to him for that. He’s not a saint and nor is he a lying, cheating scumbag. He’s the sum of all the good things and the bad things he’s done – as we all are. He has done far more good than I will ever do and he has cheated clean cyclists out of their livelihoods and lied about it – as has every doper (step forward Levi et al). How many clean cyclists we will never know.
Eldon, I think you have behaved well from start to finish. Your comments on doing some good a refreshing and remarkable response to the whole situation.
Comment by Helen | 01.17.2013 | 6:17 am
Fatty, I love your words and your work. Keep it up! Helen, ovarian cancer survivor
Comment by Chris | 01.17.2013 | 6:19 am
Nice job Fatty!
I’ve followed your blog for a long time and really I think your feelings are no different than mine so I don’t think an apology from you is needed.
In fact I don’t even think Lance should apologize. He was king at a time when doping was a huge problem in cycling. It was a sign of the times. No different than Don Draper drinking at the office. Some people will disagree but I don’t care. That’s the way I see it.
Let Lance slip into obscurity, burn that Floyd Landis photo and let’s all move on.
Comment by mwmike | 01.17.2013 | 6:51 am
Thanks, Fatty, for helping me to sort out my feelings. Keep up the good work.
Comment by Donal | 01.17.2013 | 7:10 am
Fatty,
Thanks for the well written blog post – you certainly have nothing to apologize for!
I originally found it difficult to pass judgement on Lance’s affairs, because his way of life as an elite sportsman is/was completely alien to mine. I’d like to think that my morals would have made me act and behave differently if I was in his position, but I’ll never experience the amount pressure he was under in those circumstances.
What I couldn’t abide though, is how he has continued to lie, cheat and destroy other people’s lives up to this point. Even if he did try to balance all his wrongdoing by creating and growing the Live Strong charity, it doesn’t make any of it acceptable in my eyes.
That said, I hope he’s given a chance to redeem himself in the future. He has built an incredible level of global notoriety – he now needs to do what he does best, and use it all unequivocally for good causes.
Comment by Drew | 01.17.2013 | 7:38 am
You’re not the UCI and have no obligation to “out” or crusade against professional cyclists’ rulebreaking. This blog is about doing good and fighting cancer and Susan and funny stuff about cycling and “The Hammer” and single-speed climbing and poking fun at pretentious cycling shorts ads and doughnuts and that’s why we read it. No apology needed. I was a Lance defender until I realized the fact that Lance was able not just to beat but to dominate the best cyclists in the world, when many of them have subsequently been proven to have been doping, makes it more difficult to believe that he was completely clean. My attitude at the time here. I have forgiven Lance (he’s not the only one who was doping) and the rest, but it has colored my appreciation of cycling, as cheating did before before with heavyweight boxing.
Keep fighting the good fight, seeing the humor, writing about your life, and don’t take someone else’s transgressions upon yourself. It is an understatement to say that you should hold your head high with all of the fantastic work you do.
p.s. Hey anonymous guy who calls people bullies, you are a coward.
Comment by Dillon | 01.17.2013 | 7:44 am
While there were many one-sided posts, I could always pick up on some reservations or misgivings when reading between the lines.
I am a fan of discussion for the sake of learning, not to prove who is right or wrong. For that reason I enjoyed reading the Lance posts nonetheless.
Thank you. – FC
Comment by Jacob | 01.17.2013 | 7:44 am
I always try to remind myself that the world isn’t black and white and no human (with perhaps the exception of true psychopaths, perhaps) has even been entirely good or entirely evil.
And I still have a tendency to write off people who do things I don’t like and dehumanize them in some way.
I’m going to be honest, I’ve assumed Lance was dirty for a while, but it didn’t really bother me. I can’t work up any real outrage for someone who’s hyper competitive and broke the rules, at least in part because if he didn’t break those rules he wouldn’t be able to keep up with all the rest of the cheaters. I can’t get excited about what they accomplished anymore, but it ends up just being a guy who didn’t really hurt anyone trying to keep his job.
If that had been all Lance was, a guy who cheated in an era of cheaters and then refused to own up to it but did a lot of good with his fame, I’d be completely ok with that. I was okay with that. The problem is the parts of the story about what he did to the people who crossed him and undermined his story that he was clean. By this point of the week, I had turned him into a complete villain.
This post did an excellent job of reminding me that he wasn’t only a jerk. He was human. I’m not going to be a fan of his anymore, and I’d probably feel uncomfortable donating to Livestrong if he were getting a significant income from the company, but this post helped me put him back into proper perspective.
And I understand where you’re coming from. I’m extremely hesitant to mention bad things about people, even celebrities, that I don’t know for certain were true. I tend to be willing to sit back and wait before passing judgement. It’s one of my few good personality traits. However, to people who don’t constantly remind themselves about alternative explanations and the points of view of others, I often come across as being supportive of bad people when instead I’m just cautious to condemn.
Comment by gargoyle | 01.17.2013 | 7:49 am
No apology necessary, Fatty. Regardless of whatever else the man did, Lance survived cancer and started a foundation that does a LOT of good to help people who have cancer and their families. No, that doesn’t erase some of the really horrible things he did, but it does make it hard for me to condemn him as a villain.
Keep doing good things, Fatty. Keep seeing the good in people. We got your back. And we’ll keep helping you with fund raising.
Comment by Terry | 01.17.2013 | 7:52 am
Here’s my respectful question that I hope you answer, Fatty:
Do you have a hard time believing (as I do) that Lance’s apparent determination to fight cancer and support cancer victims is not entirely genuine, given that he continued to take PED’s after recovering from his own cancer? How can he simultaneously preach about wanting to fight cancer, and then turn around and put that poison in his body? Poison that may have been responsible for his cancer in the first place?
This is where I differ from the people who are willing to overlook the negatives (lying, cheating, bullying, etc) for the positives (look at what he has done for cancer victims!) because I’m not sure he cared about the cancer stuff as much as he pretended to.
First, the “He gave himself cancer” thing is speculative and frankly silly. Lots of people get testicular cancer; did they all dope? Lots of people dope; do they all get cancer?
As to the main problem you propose: that he maybe doesn’t care much about cancer because he continued taking PEDs post cancer, that’s problematic too.
1. I think the “I’ve had cancer so wouldn’t ever take drugs” argument is hugely flawed. People who have / have had cancer don’t generally become drug-averse. They become accustomed to drugs. They have put their faith in science to help them. I would propose that someone who has successfully fought cancer with the help of pharmaceuticals would become a believer in the power of drugs. If medicine has saved your life and helped you heal your body, would you be less likely to trust that it could safely make you faster and stronger? Or more?
2. One thing there has never ever been any evidence of in Lance is a lack of commitment to the fight against cancer. – FC
Comment by Sowat | 01.17.2013 | 7:53 am
What with all the media scrutiny one might be led to believe that I killed someone, when in fact I am just a dude who still simply enjoys riding his bike!
Of course I am no longer on a…but I actually prefer our own house brand Mellow Johnny.
So the next time you are in town stop by the shop and take one for a spin around the parking lot and have an espresso on me. I make them myself and the folks around here think they are pretty tasty.
Keep the wheels turning and keep it upright and I will see you down the road. Lance
P.S. Admission is one thing, real evidence is another.
Note to anyone who thinks this is actually Lance posting: it’s not. It’s a guy who has posted with a number of different handles from somewhere in CA. – FC
Comment by Paige | 01.17.2013 | 8:13 am
Fatty – you don’t owe anyone an apology but I can totally understand why you felt the need to give one.
My heart hurts because I did want to believe Lance didn’t dope. I wanted the cinderella story to continue and I should have known it wouldn’t.
What I really want to know now is who isn’t doping? Please tell me there are some guys out there that don’t and that the sport of professional cycling isn’t completely tainted.
I don’t want to accept that everyone is doping so its ok because the best guy is still winning.
Keep up the good work, Fatty.
Comment by plum | 01.17.2013 | 8:33 am
Alright Fatty I’m going to poke this bear again.
Are you coming around on Danielson?
I’ll leave it to your to rail at everyone who has ever done anything wrong. – FC
Comment by beth | 01.17.2013 | 9:20 am
Even after reading Paul Kimmage’s Rough Ride back in 2000, I wanted to believe in Lance. I thought, he had cancer, I just can’t believe he would add that stuff to his body after going through that. Then, came comments from Lance that could have come right out of Rough Ride about how people accusing him or questioning him were ruining the sport. First, twinge that something was not right. Then, came Tyler and then Floyd. Then, I knew. A waste of a hero, but right up the alley of the the culture of professional cycling. But you are right. He is a man, with flaws, but only a person. What he has done for cancer is good. Too bad he had to make some bad decisions about winning that tarnish that.
Comment by Colorado mama | 01.17.2013 | 9:22 am
Well said.
Comment by sheri | 01.17.2013 | 9:35 am
thank you for saying that.
you’re a good person.
…there is a tiny typo in the paragraph following “when’s the last time you communicated with him.” in case you wanted to know.
Comment by Heidi | 01.17.2013 | 9:41 am
Wanting to see and believe the best in people is a wonderful thing.
Comment by Pat in Westminster Co | 01.17.2013 | 9:52 am
I applaud all the comments that were posted. It is conversation that needed to happen. Thanks for allowing it and no need to apologize for anything. I am a supporter, albeit a small one, I give as much as I can to your cause and to Livsstrong.
I got into cycling/Triathlons when I met Mr Armstrong was a teenager racing Tri’s and followed “pro” cycling because of him. I have lined up in 2 MTB races recently that he has participated in. So I applaud Mr Armstrong for the opportunity to participate in the sport.
I am not a sheltered person, a little foolish sometimes, and a little to forgiving. However, I have been around a few “pro” athletes in different fields and been acquainted with many more. So I have no illusions about what it takes to be successful in the “pro” level. Some have a win at all costs attitude, some have a purist vision. I cannot judge a person for how they chose to compete. I believe that following the rules of the sport are necessary though and if you choose to participate and you get caught, you face the consequences. As Mr. Armstrong should.
In light of the current news, we all will continue to live our lives to the fullest, contribute to our causes, read your great blog, and no matter what happens to the professional cycling world in the aftermath, we will continue to ride because we love to.
Thank you for the opportunity to have this conversation. Hopefully we will pass each other in the future.
Pat Mattson
Westminster Colorado
Thanks Pat, that’s a great perspective, really well put. – FC
Comment by Barton | 01.17.2013 | 10:11 am
Did you read Nicole Cooke’s retirement speech – or perhaps see it? It was a figurative slap on the forehead for me. When Rabobank (and others) pulled out of sponsorship of pro-cycling – men and women – I couldn’t understand why they were pulling out of sponsoring the women. I mean, women don’t dope, right? Yeah, years of East German swimmers/track stars prove that. But the point being that I knew that even pro-women athletes doped, yet I was shocked to hear it happened in cycling.
I respect – greatly respect – your ability to separate the man from the cause. That takes strength and superior wisdom. And it’s hard. I found an old bible in my house when I just moved in, cleaning out the attic (house owned by one family previously for 80 years – 3 generations of Lutheran ministers). The dedication read: Follow the Message, Not the Man. That’s something we should all apply more often.
Comment by Daddy style | 01.17.2013 | 10:36 am
All dopers are frauds. Lance,Tyler, Levi, George, Tom, Euro, North American, cycling or any sport I do not care. I coach a youth team, talk about a disappointment. A young up and commer met Lance a few years ago, he is devistated. We know and are sure there are others who got to the highest levels but gave up the dream unwilling to compromise their integrity. One works in Constuction, the other races for a local squad, with a day job. Those are my hero’s. They I repect. The whole lot are a discrase and s/b written off, they had a choice to make, they took the easy vs the right choice. To suggest all were doing it is just another excuse. What about the good others could have done with their celebrity if they had had an opportunity to win clean. We will never know, Lance, Levi, George and others could not do good without cheating. I would rather they just didn’t cheat. I hope all the various lawsuits bankrupt them all.
As for the future, we will continue to lead by example and keep the faith.
As for you Eldon, I have always enjoyed you blog and will continue to do so weather we agree or not.
Next subject please. Lets support IMBA and their good work, keep it grass roots, we don’t have to hear about cycling celebrities all the time, there is way more to this sport than competive elite atheletes and their drama
I’m looking forward to racing with Team IMBA in about a month and talking more about what they do in the near future. – FC
Comment by chickenbocks | 01.17.2013 | 10:47 am
I like what it says about YOU that you’re a guy who gives people the benefit of the doubt. It says YOU’RE AWESOME.
Comment by rabidrunner | 01.17.2013 | 11:15 am
So… you know how when you’re driving down the street and some schmuck pulls out in front of you, and you wave an angry fist or maybe a finger? And then as you get closer, you realize that schmuck is your next door neighbor? The one who shovels your snow, and picks up your kids from school and brings you cinnamon rolls? And then you feel bad for waving that fist and/or finger? Yeah, that.
I think we can learn a lot from that. It’s humanity. It’s easy to be angry and judge and whatnot when you don’t know someone personally…
Comment by Joe in San Diego | 01.17.2013 | 11:26 am
The measure of a person is how they handle success and failure. Lance achieved success by cheating. I can probably forgive that. But he also did it by destroying other people. Not having heard the Oprah interview yet, I will reserve judgment on forgiveness for the bullying that he did on his way to the top. If he apologizes and makes financial and/or other reparations to those he injured financially, professionally, or reputation, then I will consider him a better person. I fully expect, however, for this interview to be all about him and not those he hurt.
That is probably how I separate Lance from the rest. They all cheated. Lance cheated AND intentionally ruined others.
As for Livestrong’s association with Armstrong, Fatty’s association with Livestrong, and Fatty’s casual acquaintance with Armstrong, none of that taints Fatty for me, nor Fatty’s crusades to do fundraising for worthy causes, nor Livestrong’s good work.
Comment by Brian | 01.17.2013 | 11:35 am
Fatty – I always thought you did a decent job of being hopefully optimistic about Lance’s status because you, like many of us, wanted to believe in him…nothing wrong with wanting to see the best in someone. Yet you never came across as purely one-sided. Well-written piece – you were able to collate the jumbled mess of thoughts rumbling around in my head and put them together in a coherent flow. No apology required here – you got behind someone who was fooling us all and there’s no fault in being trusting. The fault is all LA’s.
Comment by FBR | 01.17.2013 | 11:46 am
Take all those drugs, make all that money, and try to be an honest nice guy. Keep in mind you started the drugs because everyone else was and it was only fair. Those side effects are horrible. Lance is a lost sheep. Good luck.
Comment by Saso | 01.17.2013 | 11:54 am
After all these years of following your blog, I am again touched by your candor and humanity. Thanks.
When giving to a charity, I am asking myself if my money really goes where it is needed.
We have never met but I trust you. You have shown your integrity many times over by walking your talk. (Plus I really enjoy your talk via your blog).
Aren’t you thinking about setting up your own charity?
Comment by davidh-marin,ca | 01.17.2013 | 12:47 pm
Another THANK YOU to the FATMAN for taking the time to read and comment on so many reader comments. Is it any wonder why we gather here….and in Davis…besides the pie?
Thank you Elden
Comment by Csmith | 01.17.2013 | 12:48 pm
Do you have concerns about how Lance used Livestrong, about his use of expenses, about how the money goes for support, not research or treatment. It’s not the most efficient charity with its donations. There are stories of private LS jets, hooker etc. Does it not bother you that he made money from Livestrong.com, which muddles the mission of the real Livestrong. Does it bother you that his fake story diverted funds from more efficient organizations working on cures and treatment?
Comment by GJMAlcyon | 01.17.2013 | 1:09 pm
You certainly don’t owe me an apology: You are guilty of nothing more than trusting people and practicing one of the traits of a good leader, “praise in public, criticize in private.”
Thank you for all you’ve done, all you do, and all you will do.
Comment by Graham | 01.17.2013 | 1:12 pm
I want to echo zlatko’s comment. Professional athletes are all still human and like all humans full of both light and dark. For some reason we expect our celebrities and athletes to be all light, even though nearly all of will admit that such is not the case of ourselves. The difference is that they live their lives in the spotlight, which shows the dark so much more clearly.
Does it excuse their bad behavior? No more (or less) than it excuses ours. Perhaps we can try for a little more humility and a little less judging, though.
Comment by Michaela | 01.17.2013 | 1:31 pm
I have been reading your blog a long, long time (Lately, I’ve been checking once a month or so). I’ve supported LiveStrong because I saw all the good they did for you and Susan, and I know all they did to lessen your troubles. I defended him when this ill wind started blowing, knowing that he had lightened your load when things were hitting rock bottom. I can’t imagine how betrayed you feel.
I read this morning about his interview tonight, and had to stop by to lend you my support. I knew that this must have been hard for you. I don’t think that you owe anyone an apology. I’m so sorry that this has happened to you… I wish I could help.
Comment by Elizabeth | 01.17.2013 | 1:51 pm
I have been so upset about the doping (I too prefer to see the good in people) that I’ve been about sick and can barely stand to talk about it. Even those who chose to believe innocent until proven guilty about Lance (me) knew that many, if not most, people believed he did dope and that I might have to eventually face it. So, you know, not a huge surprise. What has upset me so much more is people I really believed in like George Hincapie and Levi Leipheimer — I never doubted them for a moment and am so deeply disappointed in them. In some ways I feel even more decieved because they gave such an appearance of honesty while lying, cheating and doping also. Sure, Lance’s fall from what was not really grace in most people’s eyes, is really sad. But all my heroes have let me down. Except The Jensie. Maybe that’s in the future…I sure hope not. I’ll have to completely give up if that’s the case.
Comment by Melman | 01.17.2013 | 2:04 pm
I don’t think you are anyone associated with Livestrong owes an apology. I live here in Texas and support Livestrong Charity and it is separate from Lance, however it is associated with him.
Keep on with what you do. I like your blog and reading about your struggle with weight. I should have the title of Chubbycyclist….LOL
Comment by TomE | 01.17.2013 | 2:11 pm
Like so many people, I believed in Lance – wholeheartedly. I defended him. Am I angry and do I feel deceived by Lance….absolutely. Can I forgive him? Maybe.
I was in awe as to what he could do on the bike. Watching him made me go out and buy my first road bike (a LeMond – irony???). That led to a lifestyle change for myself, my wife and my 60 year old parents. Our lives are better because we ALL got on the bike. I can honestly say that I’m not too sure I would own a road bike if not for watching those Tours. I know that I would never have race and completed the Leadville 100. I also would never have been labeled Most Awesome Friend of Fatty Ever (Leadville 100 2010 “the final pitch”).
Does any of that trump what Lance did? In my selfish mind it does but in my reasonable mind it does not.
Comment by jon (a clyde from Chi-town) | 01.17.2013 | 2:27 pm
E:
You (all of us) were not duped, you (many of us) allowed a person one of the great rights our society cherishes – innocent until proven guilty.
Additionally, it is possible to judge the acts of the person as mutually exclusive. We don’t look at people as averages, we look at them within the context of all of their choices…
Onward.
Comment by MikeP | 01.17.2013 | 3:09 pm
I look forward to reading more of your bike related posts. That is what made me a fan of yours and I hope you go back to basics.
Comment by kate C. | 01.17.2013 | 3:18 pm
Interesting post – thanks!
I was always a Lance believer and my husband was the skeptic. Though after an injury 7 years ago I quit being able to bike and lost interest in following cycling because if I couldn’t bike anymore, why should I care? (or it hurt a bit too much to think about anyway.)
I did read Tyler’s recent book though, and found it FASCINATING! It made me convinced of two things: 1 – everyone was doping (or basically everyone, to some degree, at that level) definitely Lance. 2- It didn’t make them terrible people.
I’m not ‘pro-doping’ by any means now, and I hope the cycling can finally clean up their sport. But it doesn’t make people monsters that you should never associate with every again.
Comment by kate C. | 01.17.2013 | 3:19 pm
Oh, and you might be wondering why I still read your blog if I can’t bike anymore and don’t follow cycling and it hurts to think about other people getting to bike?
I’m not sure, but you’re funny sometimes, so you’re in my reader anyway. :)
Comment by JohnS | 01.17.2013 | 3:20 pm
Hummm. Why would you apologize for being compassionate, for trying to see the good in people, for not trying to throw the first stone, for wanting to believe the same shining story we all wanted to believe? Maybe you’re a victim of your own kind-heartedness, but it’s precisely that humanity that really draws many of us to your column.
Comment by Rob | 01.17.2013 | 3:26 pm
Fatty, thanks for the well written, honest, reflective piece. A couple of thoughts which impact my person view, that I hope you’ll consider:
1. My take-away from the Gifford piece is that the line between non-profit LiveStrong and FOR profit LS is very grey. Further, how much of the non-profit LS expenses were incurred by Lance to keep up his life-style? These questions make it difficult for me to continue to support LiveStrong.
2. I’m hopeful the public will eventually discover what influence was applied to whom in order for Andre Briotte to drop the federal grand jury investigation. There’s a whole separate story here that isn’t getting the attention it needs.
3. Respectfully, I think classifying your relationship as “few nice Lance-related LiveStrong experiences” is hollow. Clearly you and your supporters, of which I consider myself one, have done immense “good” with the notoriety you’ve gained. I believe you’ve personally benefited greatly by your association with Lance, including web traffic and ultimately advertising revenue, effectively becoming a sponsored rider for Gary Fisher and now Specialized, friendship with cycling personalities (Levi, Queen of Pain, Browne, BSNYC, etc.), and VIP access to numerous events. I don’t think any of these perks are undeserved, but are the result, both direct and indirect, of your relationship with Lance.
I know you and the team will keep “doing good” and I hope you’ll write more about cycling related adventures with friends.
Comment by Barefoot Rose | 01.17.2013 | 3:42 pm
Fatty – I am a huge fan of The Fat Cyclist even though I am a runner not a cyclist so I don’t grasp why this Lance business is as big of a deal as it is. As a fellow blogger (of five readers)though, I can understand why you would feel the need to write this post. That is ultimately what keeps us returning to share in your adventures. It was you, Elden, that inspired me to ride more miles on a bike than I ever thought I would.
Comment by Jeff Bike | 01.17.2013 | 5:14 pm
Thank you for your unnecessary apologies. We live in a place that has a law of the land that states in effect “Innocent until proven guilty”. Well we now have to admit who was proven guilty. Seeing or portraying someone in a good light is not a crime.
We are taught from childhood onward to be winners. Some who have the kind of drive it takes to be in the elite of any field run the risk of stepping over the line. If we look at history; many of those we admire as successful have tread very close to and sometimes over the line. Many of those beloved heroes would not stand up to today’s scrutiny. We as the human race take away a lesson; If we give anyone the praise and support that holds them to be a hero, we are giving them power of a kind. We all know the old saying “Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.” The higher someone is held or the higher the aspiration, the greater the risk of corruption and greater the fall from grace.
Comment by Kqadams | 01.17.2013 | 6:21 pm
Nicely said. I’m not a hard-core cyclist or even spectator (not a spectator for any sport), so it’s very helpful for me to hear your thoughts as someone who is so connected to the sport and more remotely connected to Lance himself. I think your assessment of manipulation is probably correct, but I also think he had become unaware of his manipulations by the time you had your encounters with him — unaware in the sense that they had become second nature to him.
Comment by Nic Grillo | 01.17.2013 | 8:54 pm
I sincerely hope that people are able to hold Livestrong separate from Lance. I always thought it was great that he started it, and that his fame (however ill gotten it may have been) was able to attract attention to it, but for me it was always about so much more than Lance. I raise money for Livestrong because of the work that I have seen them do, and the way they help people through a very scary and difficult time. I wear the yellow band because it reminds me that my life is a gift, and to make the most of it. It seems “making the most of it” meant something different to Lance. That’s disappointing, but in a distant sort of way that doesn’t really change who I am, or how I live my life.
Elden, you owe me no apology or anything else for that matter. I read your blog because you are entertaining, you seem to have a “make the most of it” outlook similar to mine, and you remind me that there is always more I can do to make other people’s lives better and just be a better person. For that, sir, I thank you.
Comment by Anonymous | 01.17.2013 | 9:19 pm
Wait. What?! He regrets coming back because he wouldn’t be where he is now if he hadn’t? So he doesn’t regret doping and treating people the way he did, he just regrets getting caught. Great. What a guy.
Comment by Snuva | 01.17.2013 | 9:43 pm
None of us are all hero or all villain. It’s not that I don’t agree with a lot of the things being said about him right now – but I’m trying to remember that there were/ are good things to remember. I don’t know how I’d react to being diagnosed with cancer, however I sincerely doubt I would or could turn it around to do as much for others as he has. It is probably the same push and competitiveness that pushed him to doping that meant he had the same will and energy to set up Livestrong, etc. Two sides of the same coin; the dark side of the force and Yoda’s side. Sigh.
Comment by Eva | 01.18.2013 | 12:19 am
Free verse Friday…
Thank you!
Comment by Ekimq | 01.18.2013 | 5:08 am
My grandma always used to say “If you haven’t got anything good to say about someone, don’t say anything at all”.
I think you just showed that side of yourself to everyone. You want everyone to be good all the way through, unfortunately very few live up to that hope.
That said, don’t give up; because it’s that optimism in human beings which puts a smile on your face every day.
Comment by NancyP | 01.18.2013 | 9:12 am
I’m over Lance and doping and even professional cycling (sorry, but it’s true). I wouldn’t tune in to see him race again, I can’t imagine why anyone would or why he thinks anyone would.
I do appreciate the way you continue to focus your energy on doing meaningful good in the world and will support your efforts, particularly with World Bicycle Relief.
I also appreciate the joy you find in cycling – that I relate to (and I wish it would warm up a bit and the snow and ice would melt so I could go out for a little ride – maybe Saturday!).
So, onward and upward and enough about Lance. He doesn’t deserve anymore attention.
Comment by englishstu | 01.18.2013 | 1:15 pm
Hey Fatty – thanks a truly heartfelt and honest post. You have nothing to apologise for and don’t need to beat yourself up on this one. You believed in Lance and I find it hard to believe that his empathy for you and Susan was anything but genuine – we should all believe the best of people and look for the good in them until we know otherwise. I tell my kids to always look for the good and positives in people, if we are always looking for the ‘catch’ or defect in other people the world would be a much poorer place.
Comment by Beth | 01.18.2013 | 7:53 pm
Hi- I enjoy your blog and your passion for helping people. I know you are good friends with Levi and I watched your hour video interview with Levi. It’s great that you stand by your friends. But I want to know if you think that GROWN men made the choice to dope (Levi, George, etc) and are now blaming Lance. In my opinion – they are all GROWN men and ALL of them were wrong. How can they blame Lance? Yes, their jobs were on the line – but many people quit their job instead of doing the wrong thing. I think ALL of them were wrong and I am frustrated that many people are saying ‘Lance made us do it’. And I agree with you that the Livestrong foundation is amazing – was very helpful when cancer came to my family. I still wear my Livestrong band proudly. Thanks for all your blogs!
Pingback by Why I no longer Livestrong | Life. Not terribly ordinary. | 01.19.2013 | 10:02 am
[...] about his kids? He told one big-ass whopper. What lesson does that teach his children? Fatty has a similar reaction to mine. He will continue to raise money for Livestrong; I will not. Does it matter? Not to [...]
Comment by Jenn | 01.19.2013 | 12:23 pm
Don’t have time to read all the comments just now (headed out on my bike! In January!), so forgive if I’m repeating anyone, but my thoughts are as follows:
“Do you feel like you owe your readers an apology?
I do.
Readers, I’m sorry I was one-sided about Lance. My inclination is to talk publicly about the good people do, and to keep my reservations about people to myself. That was a disservice to you.”
Apology not necessary, because that last sentence? Pretty much follows a rule with which many people could stand to become a little more familiar…If you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all.
Ride on, Fatty.
Best,
Jenn
Comment by Jenn | 01.19.2013 | 12:24 pm
Oops. Second to last sentence. You know what I meant. Bike on the brain.
Outtie
Jenn
Comment by yossarian | 01.21.2013 | 6:34 pm
Interesting interview Fatty. You are a good person. You give logical persuasive arguments and reasoning. But, of course, over the years you have been part of the “problem”. Apology accepted.
But is it actually acceptable to say “Lance doped” now? Are you sure?
You’re point has always been “I presume innocence until proven guilty”. So, where is the proof now? You are going to take the word of Armstrong? A self-confessed serial liar and drug cheat? I think he’s playing you still.
Comment by Ashley | 01.22.2013 | 10:41 am
Thanks Fatty, for this. Not needed, but always nice to hear your opinion.
I wrote my opinion on the matter here: http://aerochick.com/2013/01/the-lance-effect/
Comment by All Gear No Idea | 01.22.2013 | 12:40 pm
Hi Not So Fatty (180 lbs is not fat unless you are 5′4″)
having recently discovered your blog and the amazing things you do for very good causes I would like to make 2 observations:
If Armstrong hadn’t doped, he might not have won the 7 TDF titles, which would mean that Livestrong might never have happened (difficult to raise money as a 7 time unplaced rider in TDF) with many people not getting the help they received so in my opinion there is no need to apologise as you focussed on the positive (if we want negative there are a plethora of tabloids).
It seems to be a common view that doping and substance abuse was commonplace in pro cycling in that era, how many other riders escaped testing, the sport has done a lot to clean up so how long are we going to continue to discuss the past (I am sure there are not too many debates over disqualifying USSR and East German track and field athletes from the 1970s).
Thanks for the great blog and keep up the good work,if you have time check out another great charity http://www.songo.info/